Ep 292: Two Epidurals, Then Unmedicated: What Danica Learned (and Didn’t Expect)

Dr. Nicole (00:00.128)
Epidural or unmedicated? How do you know what's right for you? Danica has done both and in this episode she takes us through her journey of having two epidural births followed by an unmedicated birth which was her biggest baby yet. She shares what worked, what didn't and how she felt in those first moments postpartum. It's going to surprise you. If you're weighing your pain management options, this episode is for you.

Dr. Nicole (00:34.542)
Welcome to the Birth with Power podcast where knowledge is power and power transforms birth. I'm Dr. Nicole Callaway-Rankins, mom of two and practicing board certified OB-GYN with over 20 years of experience and nearly 2,000 births attended. I've seen firsthand how the hospital system can leave women feeling unheard and uncertain, but that doesn't have to be your story.

Here, you'll get the knowledge, support, and strategies to take charge of your birth experience so you can walk into the hospital feeling calm, confident, and empowered. Note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not a substitute for medical advice. See the full disclaimer at drnaclormoranigans.com forward slash disclaimer. Now let's get to it. Hello there, welcome to another episode of the podcast. This is episode number 292.

I am so glad you're spending some time with me today. We are diving into an important conversation today with Danica. She's a stay at home mom to three boys. She had epidurals for her first two births, but for her third, which was her biggest baby, she went unmedicated. In this episode, she shares why she made that choice, how she prepared, what worked and what didn't work, and how she felt in those

first moments, postpartum, it wasn't exactly what she was expecting. And I think it's gonna surprise you. Now, if you're wondering whether an epidural or in a medicated birth is right for you, this episode is going to give you such valuable insight. And you what else is gonna give you valuable insight? Mind to an improved childbirth education class, the Birth with Power Pathway that is launching this May.

This class is designed to make sure you feel calm, confident, and empowered no matter how you choose to give birth. Now the best way to know when the course is available is to hop on my email list at drnicholerinkins.com forward slash email. And when you sign up, you'll also get the Birth with Power Brief. This is my weekly email newsletter that has a birth tip, which is a practical insight or tip for you to help you feel more prepared. It might be a mindset shift or a strategy.

Dr. Nicole (02:52.29)
There's a fun, did you know section where you will learn a surprising or fun fact about pregnancy or birth. And then there's always an action item, the take one small step section, which is a simple but actionable step you can take to make your birth prep easier. Maybe a journal prompt, a worksheet link, or a question to.

Ask your doctor again, hop on my email list at drnicholemarrinkins.com forward slash email to know when the Birth with Power pathway is launching and to start getting the Birth with Power brief. I know you're going to love it. All right, let's get into the conversation with Danica.

Dr. Nicole (03:36.686)
Thank you so much, Danica, for agreeing to come on to the podcast. I am so excited to have you here to share your birth story. this one is a little different because we're going to be talking about your actual third birth. But we'll get into that in just a minute. Why don't we first start off by having you tell us a bit about yourself and your family.

Yeah, me too.

Danica (03:54.464)
Okay, I live in California. I live in the same place that I grew up in and left for college and then met my husband and we came back. We have three boys. They are five, almost three and eight months now. And I'm from a family of all girls, so the boy thing is new.

It's fun. It's a lot of learning, a lot different. And I am a stay at home mom. I got my master's degree, graduated just after my first son was born. But now stay at home, take him to school and back every day. And we just have lots of fun.

Yeah, yeah

Dr. Nicole (04:31.851)
I love it. love it. I'm from a family of all girls too. I'm a family of three girls. How many sisters do you have?

I have two sisters and then two half sisters, so there's three and five.

Yep. Yep. So I'm from a family of all girls, but then I also only had girls. So it's the opposite of you. Yeah. All right. So we are talking about your most recent birth, your sweet eight month old boy. that was your first unmedicated birth. And we'll get to what led you to that choice. But why don't we first start off with talking about what was your pregnancy and your prenatal care like for that pregnancy?

It

Danica (05:07.446)
Yeah, pretty routine. No complications, saw a great physician. The practice that she's at has multiple doctors. So I had seen a doctor at the same practice for my last baby. And then this doctor that I saw this time had actually delivered him because my doctor was out of the office. Gotcha. And then based on availability, I just ended up seeing this one the whole time.

She actually wasn't there to deliver this one, so that was kind of a bummer, yeah, it was great. Loved it. Like I said, no complications, all pretty routine.

Good, good. So now for your first two births, you had an epidural. What led you to make the decision for this time to try for an unmedicated birth?

Yeah, I mean, I never really ruled it out. I was always open to it, except that I knew that I did not want to do it for my first baby.

Okay, interesting. Why not for your first baby?

Danica (06:03.758)
I just felt like I wanted to understand more about how birth worked before going into it on Medicaid and I guess. I also knew that, I don't know, like I just, you you hear people that are like, I'm going to do it without an epidural. And then they're like, nevermind. need it. So I like, I want to be sure before I want to know for sure that like, I feel comfortable with it. And that's what I want to do.

Okay, okay. So you did that for your first one. And I guess obviously that you figured you were going to have more children. So you thought, I guess the second time around, what was your thought process about epidural versus not? And then what led you to the third time?

Yes.

Danica (06:44.312)
Yeah, the second time around, know, the first one went well. I didn't have any complaints. So I was like, let's do it again. The first epidural was very strong. I mean, from what I can tell, you know, I don't know. I haven't had every single epidural in the world, but I couldn't move my legs. was a strong one.

Yeah, that sounds like a strong one when you can't feel anything.

Yeah. The second one was lighter. think looking back, I think it was what would be considered a walking epidural. Okay. And so I expected it to be stronger and then it wasn't. Okay. So I kind of, I'd been having contractions for a long time and then they did the epidural and they didn't really get worse. but they didn't get better either. So I was like, you know what, like maybe, maybe I can do this. Maybe it's worth just going for it on the third one because you know, I just,

felt a little more comfortable with that pain and that experience of having all the contractions and everything. So yeah, I don't know if there's really more of a reason I wanted to experience it. I it was the time because, you know, I don't know how many chances I would have.

Yeah, yeah. Also, I don't know if you were thinking or I'll just add that, you know, each labor typically gets a little bit faster. So it may not be, you know, as much time that you have to manage pain without medication. So what then did you do to prepare for birth without an epidural?

Danica (08:07.182)
I feel like I did a lot. Just kind of, you know, obviously I had all the prenatal appointments, talked to my doctor a little bit when I was starting to consider doing it unmedicated just to see what she recommended.

Tell us, want to hear all of it, would you?

Dr. Nicole (08:22.447)
and what does she say if you don't mind, if you remember?

I think she recommended some YouTube videos and stuff, like just going to YouTube, find some breathing videos. She kind of asked me like, why? And I was like, well, you know, I don't, I don't really know, but I've got time to decide. Right. But so I talked to her about it. I talked to friends and family a lot. had a sister in law who I'm very close with who was pregnant at the same time and she had had all of her babies on medicated. and so I had a lot of questions for her. Another one had had some epidural births and then.

started doing on Medicaid at birth. they were big helps to me, just kind of in the decision phase at least. And then also once I started moving into what am I going to do talking to them about what they did, listen to a lot of birth stories, podcasts, your podcast, obviously every, well.

Since my first, so my second pregnancy and my third pregnancy, I have listened to your podcast on big babies. Like I make it a point to do that as I'm going into it just to make sure like, okay, understand, I can advocate for myself.

Because as we as we will hear you have bigger babies.

Danica (09:27.518)
Yes, I do have bigger babies and so I wanted to know, you know, like make sure do I want to induce, do I not want to induce, etc. So yeah, all about pregnancy and birth. Awesome. Added some other ones in there. Just, you know, whatever I could find that had birth stories that sounded like they would be relevant to me.

Probably the birth hour, evidence-based birth.

Yeah, yeah, a couple of those. I also, read the Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, which I had read previously with my second baby just because it had been recommended to me. So I read that a little bit more closely this time since I knew I was planning on using those methods. And then also lots of YouTube videos. had a couple of...

accounts that I was like, I made a little playlist of like breathing and counter pressure and things like that. And in the last couple of weeks, my husband and I would watch them together. And we would just, you know, like make sure that we were on the ball for how it was going to work, which, know, mostly went out the window. But I felt like I knew what I, I knew the options and that was what I wanted. I wanted to know what are the ideas that I can have going into this.

Gotcha, gotcha, perfect, perfect. Okay, I love that, I love that. So what were some things that you wanted for your birth experience?

Danica (10:39.918)
Um, you know, I, I don't know. mean, I feel like I wanted to do it on Medicaid and obviously that was my intention. Um, but I was very open to like, I know that there could be complications. I know that there could be things that change. I wanted, um, sorry, lost my.

No, that's okay. It sounds like you were pretty good with the flow with it, sounds like. mean, maybe part of it was because you'd had, did you have your other two at the same hospital? So this was the same hospital or different?

We had moved from out of state in between my first two. So I had just had the last two. But one thing I guess that I did want that was more specific was I wanted to wear my own gown. And I had considered that previously. And then I thought, you know, like, it's going to get disgusting. I'd rather it just be the hospital's responsibility to deal with. But I learned with my second baby that I actually do not like the gowns that they have at this hospital.

Okay.

Danica (11:43.622)
They have like nursing openings that I just was not a fan of in the front. So I was like, you know what, like even if I throw it away, like I would rather have my own gown. So that was one thing that specifically I was like, I want to have this. And I did, I didn't mention this. I did do your birth plan class. And that was fantastic. I had, I think I made a birth plan with my first, but then I just never really even got it out. Like it just, it was very low level.

delayed cord clamping, like things that they kind of do routinely now. And so then with my second, I don't know, I mean, I felt comfortable with birth, so I didn't feel like it was necessary, but I also was hoping he would come a little bit later. I didn't have everything completely ready. But then with this one, your class helped a ton in not just like communicating that with my team in the moment, but also just

whittling down, what do I actually want? What are my preferences for this? And so that was one of them. Like I wanted to wear my own gown and it was nice to have that on the paper so that it was like, I can hand it to them and be like, you don't have to like ask me questions about it. If you're you know, in pain. So there were a couple of things that were specific, but overall, like this is kind of my plan. These are my wishes, but if it doesn't happen, like I completely understand. Like I just want communication.

Right. If I'm like distracted.

Dr. Nicole (13:09.088)
Yep, gotcha. I love that. And y'all didn't pay her to say that she liked the

No, it's true. I really did love having it, even if it was just to understand what I wanted myself in the creation of

Definitely, which is so important. then I love too that like people sometimes don't think that you can wear your own clothes to have a baby. Like you have to wear the hospital stuff. But also an excellent point that don't wear anything that you will not feel comfortable throwing away. Yes, there are lots of bodily fluids with births. Smart choices all around. Now, was there anything at all that you were afraid of or worried about with giving birth? Okay.

Yes. I am terrified of throwing up. I have a fear of throwing up. Really? And yes. And so I was nervous about that with being unmedicated. I know that sometimes they will, they'll put Zofran even in like epidurals, I think sometimes. And I wasn't sure if like I'd had that in the past and you know, just, you know, when you hit transition, sometimes you get nauseous. So I was really nervous about that. So that was the one medication that I was open to having was

If I'm nauseous, I want meds.

Dr. Nicole (14:21.71)
Got it. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Sometimes we do give Zofran. It's not in the epidural, but like with it. So in order to help with that, because it actually vomiting nausea is super common. Yeah. Let's talk about what was your labor and birth like? How did things go?

Okay, it was great.

I like that. So tell us how it started.

yeah, so I, my first two had come early. They had come at 38 weeks, five days and 38 weeks, six days. So I was ready. mean, especially having two kids that I needed to make sure that like everything was set for them, for leaving them for a couple of days. We were ready to go and then he didn't come and he didn't come and he didn't come.

So I was just like, you know, trying to walk him out as best I could. So then we had a couple, I was at my 39 week appointment, I was, think four centimeters dilated. So I was, you know, moving along, but still like I would have these nights where I'd wake up and then contractions would start and then they'd just go away. And I get a lot of Braxton Hicks contractions. So that wasn't completely irregular for me, but.

Danica (15:28.846)
Um, it was pretty disheartening every time it was like, just want to be in pain. So then eventually I woke up around 3 a.m. and just did a ton of pain. And usually what would happen is I would wake up, I would go to the bathroom and then once my bladder wasn't full, they would kind of slow down. Gotcha. And this time that didn't happen. It was a different kind of pain. Um, it was even different than the contractions I had felt and labor with my second. It was more of like just really intense, low.

pressure, pain. It wasn't like a muscle contraction really. It was just straight up pain. So I went to the bathroom, got back in bed and I was like, you know what, these aren't going away. I'm going to start timing them. So started timing. They were about six minutes apart, which for a third baby is kind of like, okay, you got to start thinking about getting ready to go in. I was like, I'm going to text my mom because she was our

babysitting. I figured she was asleep and I didn't want to wake her up yet, but I was like, if she checks her phone, like I want her to know. And so then I got up and I was like, I'm going to start like finishing up the last couple of packing things and getting ready. And I got up and they just like ramped up. Like it was like they're three minutes apart. So I was like, okay, I think it's time. I am in a lot of pain and it's like, you know, getting intense. So I woke up my husband.

He called my mom, had her head down, we finished up packing and then basically right when my mom got there, we left, we prayed, we prayed together and we left and then, you know, got going and we to the hospital about 5 a.m. So wait, you said and you left? Yep.

Look at this.

Dr. Nicole (17:14.252)
Got to the hospital at five, okay.

I left my shoes off until I got in the car because I was like, need something for the drive. I need to be distracted doing something instead of just sitting here in pain. the car, it was about 10, 15 minutes. I mean, it was very early in the morning, so wasn't much traffic. So we got to the hospital, got checked in. did call. At one point I called and let them know that I was coming in and mentioned that, but that's an important part.

I my shoes on.

Danica (17:46.968)
So got to the hospital and they let us skip triage, which was great because we, I had already been dilated, like I said, to about a four and it was my third baby. So they were like, we're just gonna go straight in. Let them know that I was planning on doing this unmedicated, I think in the elevator up there when I met my nurse, which I think was good. Cause then she was like, okay, just so you know, like once you tell us that we're not gonna mention it.

We have.

Danica (18:13.474)
Like, we're not going to ask you if you want medication. Like, we're just going to let that be up to you. So that was good, because then I knew if I changed my mind, like, this is on me. I need to be like, I want some meds. So we got up to the room. They checked me. I think I was at like a six or a seven, but she said my cervix was very thin. Like she said she could barely, she would find one side and then lose the other side. And so she couldn't even really tell. So they knew things were going to, you know, get moving pretty quick. So I got

the blood draws, HEPLOK, they were able to do wireless monitors, which was great, but I did have to sit for a while to let those get a couple good contractions to make sure that they were working. So it was about 5.30, I think, when they started letting me move around. And we had brought a yoga ball. We'd actually just, I had intended on like deflating it and then pumping it up when we were there. And it was actually good that this happened, but we didn't. So we just were like walking in with this.

big yoga ball. was like in the back of our car. But our hospital didn't have that. They have peanut balls, but no yoga balls. So I was glad that we brought it because I use that a lot. So I sat on the yoga ball once I was able to move. Just kind of did what I could. Like I said, it was just really intense pain and there wasn't really much I could do to decrease it from what I tried.

So it was a lot of just like, okay, I have like 30 seconds to a minute in between contractions and I'll like move and try something else and then I'll just go back to, you know, burying it out.

was really like you just had to get through a contraction, then get through a contraction and then... Yes.

Danica (20:01.821)
Yeah, and I didn't really feel like I had rest. I feel like that was the hard thing was that just from the time I had woken up, basically, it was so close together that like, like when I was getting ready to go, it was like, okay, put my mascara on and then another contraction and then I walked down the stairs and then another. So my back was getting really sore just from like not having a chance to like relax and, you know, just be at rest for a minute. So that was tough. It was.

Check.

Danica (20:30.358)
It was a lot. Then I think I went to the bathroom and then I came back out and the doctor was there like ready to check me again. This would have been about six and I think I was at a nine. Okay. And yes. So then I sat back down on the yoga ball and that was where I did get a little bit nauseous. It was more of like, like I just felt like overheated a little bit and

So you were rocking.

Danica (20:56.096)
I had brought a little handheld fan and that was like a lifesaver. I just set it up in front of me. I asked my husband to get ice chips and I would just, you know, like eat an ice chip and have the fan blowing on me. And it kind of helped me to be a little bit like not sitting up straight. would like see, lean sideways on the bed or something to get a little bit more. I mean, like I said, it wasn't really relief, but it helped a little bit. And around that point it started getting,

like I said, more intense. And so I told the nurse, like, was kind of starting to feel some, not full on urges to push, but like, I could tell that that was kind of starting. And I was like, once this baby is ready, like, I am not going to be able to hold back. So like, just be prepared for that. So I think they were prepared for it, which was good. But I just could tell, like, I could feel in my body that it was just going to happen.

And I had heard about the fetal adduction reflex, but I had never experienced it. So it was, I think that it was my body like telling me that was kind of coming. So after a little while of that, I was like, I just, I need to get back in the bed. Like I need to lay down and rest my back and just, you know, have a place to like fully put my body down, if that makes sense. So I got in the bed, I asked them for a peanut ball and they

got me one. They put it between my legs, but my legs were like straight. This is not comfortable. not what I wanted, but I was in the middle of a contractions. I couldn't do anything about it. So I had to survive that one. And then I got my legs bent into kind of like a fetal position, except with the peanut ball in the middle. And that was probably the best, the most relief that I felt the whole time. So that was awesome, an awesome position for me to be in. So I

when I read-

Danica (22:52.43)
I mean, I probably had one contraction in that position that I was like, okay, this is good. And then I had like a really strong contraction. Actually, you know what? I didn't mention when the doctor had checked my cervix and I was at a nine, she offered to break my water and I declined. And that was something that was in my birth plan that with my second, they had broken my water. And I was like, you know what? I kind of wish I hadn't done that. I mean, I just didn't really understand it. And it was fine.

good, but there wasn't an issue with it. was just like, you know what? This time I think I'd rather not do that. And also I wasn't ready for things to get any more intense than they already were. So then I'm in the, with the peanut ball on my side and it was, it was like a lot of pressure and I told the nurse and then my water broke and my husband actually jumped because I kind of like made a pop. So that was a little bit of like a humorous moment.

Okay

Danica (23:51.348)
nice little relief. So yeah, my water broke and it got more intense, but it was already pretty intense, so it wasn't like loads different. But they called the doctor in, obviously, because it was like, okay, things are happening. And then they called the whole team in too, which for me included a couple of extra nurses because of my big baby.

There were a lot of people in the room. were, I think, two extra nurses in case there was shoulder dystocia. So lots of people came in and very soon after that, it's all kind of a blur. It was probably like the next contraction. My body just kind of took over and just pushed with all its might. I don't know what came out of me, but it was just, know, yeah, it just started. So they weren't really ready, I don't think.

It was pretty quick, and they were getting ready, but they weren't really quite there. So I wasn't pushing myself yet. But that surge, wasn't a full contraction. was like that push kind of ended, and then it came again, and I started pushing with it that time because the doctor was there ready to catch the baby. I felt comfortable pushing at that point. So I pushed, and I think his head came out at that point, my husband said.

So I just, you my body was pushing, I was pushing, got his head out, and then my contraction ended. And typically when you're pushing, it's like you push for the contraction, then you take a break. The contraction ended, but I kind of started to sense some commotion and everyone was saying, push, push, push. So I was like, okay, so I just pushed. Even though like there was not really anything left like physiologically happening. So I pushed and he came out, he was born.

And it was great. I didn't know until a couple hours later that the commotion was just that the bed wasn't coming apart. The bed, they had lowered it down and they'd try and take it off, but the bed was like malfunctioning. So the doctor was like leaning over the bed, trying to catch the baby. So in my mind, it was like, he's stuck. Like there's something wrong. I need to push about right now. And it turns out that was not the case. either way, you know, he made it here.

Dr. Nicole (26:07.736)
Okay.

Danica (26:12.792)
Okay, but yeah, it was very fast. He was born at 641.

What time was he born? So you were in labor, not even for four hours.

Yeah, yeah, it was quick. like two hours, less than two hours at the hospital. It was also right at shift change. So we like the when my water broke and everything, it made a really big mess. So the my poor nurse that was with me for the whole delivery, she had to stay a little bit longer because she was just like cleaning up for like half an hour. So I felt kind of bad and

My doctor, who I had seen the whole pregnancy, she came in like 20 minutes after he was born. So that was kind of a bummer, but she still saw me postpartum and the doctor that delivered him was great too. So not a big issue, but it was a little bit of a bummer.

Yeah. And did they do skin to skin and the leg core clamping and all that?

Danica (27:08.62)
I believe so. And they started Pitocin. think that's pretty routine. don't know if it was.

It helps to prevent hemorrhage afterwards. that's my.

Yeah, so they started Pitocin, they did I think some local anesthetic and stitched up. had a small tear. I think it was the smallest of my kids. I think I've had second degree for the first two and then this was like a first degree. So they were stitching me up and it was so painful. I feel like I had heard that like, not a stitching necessarily, but just like the whole, like immediately after birth, I felt like I was going to get this relief. And then I was like,

I feel like I just got like ripped open and now they're like pushing on my belly and they started Pitocin and it just, I don't know. I feel like I was hoping for an adrenaline rush or something. It didn't come how I hoped. I mean, it was still amazing. Like I had my baby and it great. But that's something and we might touch on it later, but I just, I felt like it distracted me a little bit from like the bliss of having your new baby. So that was a bummer and something I didn't necessarily expect. But yeah.

Right, right,

Dr. Nicole (28:14.412)
Right.

Other than that, was great. was fast. And I was grateful for that because it was very painful. So if it was going to be painful, I'd rather it be fast.

Now I do, definitely want to talk about that, how you felt, I also want to, for a second, can we just talk about the size of your babies and the size of your babies relative to you? Because I think that's an important point. So how big of your babies were?

So my first was like I said, he was early and he had measured big the whole time and I had in my head that he was either gonna be big or he was gonna be early and he was both So he was nine pounds five ounces. Okay, and he had a really big head. I don't remember the exact measurement but I remember them I don't know if it was just the hospital that we were at but they did a What's the

CMV, they did a CMV test on him because his head was like above the 98th percentile. So it was big head, which actually gave me a lot of confidence going forward. Like if I had known beforehand that my babies were going to be that big and have giant heads, like I would have been terrified. But I had had no complications. Like he was relatively quick pushing as well. Like I've been really blessed with that.

Danica (29:31.224)
So then my second baby was nine pounds, four ounces. And he actually spit up before they weighed him. So I'm like, he was probably just insane. But he was nine pounds, four ounces also early. So I was getting kind of stressed towards the end of this pregnancy, like that this baby was gonna be huge because he was not coming as early as the other two, but trying not to stress too much about it.

But anyway, so we actually, were doing the golden hour. He was doing skin to skin. And I told the nurse, I was like, you know, like you can weigh him whenever I'm fine with that. And she was like, well, do you want to? And I was like, I mean, I'm kind of curious to see how big he is. She was like, me too. He was nine pounds, 14 ounces. So he was my biggest weight by like half a pound. Good size. He was still two days before his due date.

No.

It's still early. I don't know why my babies think they need to be that big that early, but is your

Is your husband like tall or?

Danica (30:33.258)
No, I mean, he's like six feet. I'm like five, six and a half, five, seven, but I'm, you know, like thin. Like that's just my natural build is slim. I, it's, I don't know. I mean, I don't have gestational diabetes. I do feel like I gain a good amount of weight when I'm pregnant, but I mean, a good amount of that is also the baby. But yeah, so I don't know what it

You just make big babies.

Well, yes, I think that, I mean, I was, I was eight pounds, 10 ounces when I was born. So I wasn't small. And I think that certain of my extended family have, you know, genetically, we have big babies. I don't think that that's uncommon, but I still didn't expect mine to be that big. And I also, I'll be honest, I didn't expect my body to be that good at having babies because I don't, I don't think of myself as like having birthing hips or like, know, like,

Should we?

Typical like what you would picture for someone who's good at having babies, right? So I'm really grateful for that and it I don't know. I feel like you know barring Unique complications and your body's made to have your babies So like I said it like if someone had told me beforehand that that was gonna be helping my babies were I would have probably passed out but Right, you know looking back. It's like it your body does wasn't supposed to do so

Dr. Nicole (31:56.984)
Right, right. Okay, all right. And was there a lot of like discussion during interview or pregnancies about this baby is maybe kind of big, this baby may be big?

Honestly, no. I always expected it. With my first, my doctor said, I think I had an appointment the day that my water broke. And she was like, you know, I don't think that your baby's that big. I think that you're just like all baby. And so it seems like, you know, you're big. So we didn't expect him to be that size. And then with my second, my doctor that week had said, I think he's big, but I don't think he's as big as your first.

So the doctors always kind of seem to think like, that is, you know, it's not going to happen again. This one's not as big this time. I don't know. There wasn't ever a push to like induce me early. I feel like in my mind, I was like, you know, like if I make it past my due date, I need to think about induction because I don't want them to get too big. but, and because, you know, I don't know, I didn't want him to go too long because I also, I wanted him to come naturally because

I decided that if I got induced, I wanted to have an epidural, but I didn't want to have an epidural. Gotcha. So there were a couple of things in play there. yeah, I never felt pressured to induce early. I think that that's a doctor thing and I've just been blessed to have a couple doctors that haven't had an issue with it. Because like I said, I've now seen a different doctor every time. I've never once, yeah. think the first one I had an induction scheduled, but it...

That was on me. That wasn't on them.

Dr. Nicole (33:36.428)
Okay, all right. Love, I love. So let's get back to what was postpartum like for you. So you said in that immediate period, it wasn't exactly what you thought it was going to be. How was the rest of your postpartum?

I with my first it was really hard with my second it was a lot better and this this one I would say was similar to my second maybe a little bit harder Okay, which maybe was because he was bigger or just having two kids instead of one to be taken care of my husband had fantastic paternity leave which was really integral, but Yeah, it was it was good. I mean

I feel like the first time I had had a baby and went into that postpartum period, I was like, wow, this is harder than I expected it to be. And so then the next two I prepared for like, okay, it's going to be hard. And it was like, you know what? This is actually like, I feel like there's some muscle memory there that gets developed after you've recovered once. So yeah, wasn't nearly as hard as it was the first time, but it was a little bit harder than

the second time. don't really remember specifics. All I remember is comparing it.

That's totally fine. No, that is helpful. That is helpful. So do you feel like, like, how were you, I guess, when did that feeling of like, I just got hit by a truck kind of wear off? And then you felt, did you feel like you were up and moving around sooner? Like, what was that like?

Danica (35:08.27)
Maybe it was a little bit. I was moving around a little bit sooner than previously, but that hasn't been a huge issue for me in the past. Usually I'm able to get up and move pretty quickly. I would say it was within a couple hours that it went back to what it would normally have been. After a little bit, it was kind of back to normal, but it was just that first hour or two hours, I would say, that was rough.

to.

Dr. Nicole (35:36.958)
Gotcha. Then so looking back, how do you feel or how would you compare, I guess, the birth experiences with and without an epidural? I guess the pros and cons of each.

Yeah. I think if I had to pick, like if I have any more kids, then I would probably go with like a walking epidural. If I have a choice, obviously. I mean, I don't know that you can always control how strong your epidural is and you obviously can't control how fast things go. I don't know if I would have time for an epidural, but.

If I got to pick, like my ideal situation would be that. I think that like a lot of people are totally different than me and they think they like, they feel like they bond with their baby better when they have an unmedicated birth. so I could just be a total outlier there, but I just, I felt like when the, it wasn't even really about the labor. it was more that immediate postpartum. Like I just, I wish that I had been less distracted by the pain.

so that I could have just focused on the baby. But it was still, I mean, it's still amazing. It's not like I didn't bond with my baby. And that being said, I'm so glad that I did it like myself. That was something that like, I'm really proud of myself that I gave birth to a giant baby. not a kid. Not that giant, but you know, like really large. So I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of my body and I'm proud of how I handled it. I wasn't sure.

Hehehehehe

Danica (37:13.484)
You know, like I was a distance runner for a long time in high school and college. And so I have a lot of experience with pain and like mind over body. And so I was kind of curious to see how that was going to go. Like how can I put my mind over my pain? And I think I did a really good job at that. I think I realized that having a high pain tolerance isn't necessarily feeling it less. It's more keeping your composure.

which in the moment was not a very happy surprise. I was like, I thought I was going to like feel better, not just be able to not scream. But yeah, I think that like all of those, the breathing exercises, those kinds of things, I didn't really use counter pressure. But other people love it. I just, didn't really feel like that was helping me. But I think the breathing and stuff helped me really stay on top of it. It helped me

not like I don't, I don't think I ever said I can't do this or I don't think I ever even thought I can't do this. I felt pretty confident. I knew it was going to be over soon. he was almost here and it was going to be worth it. I did keep saying this hurts so bad. And I think that the first words out of my mouth after he was born was I'm never doing that again. And I think everyone, from what I can tell a lot of people who have

given birth unmedicated have that same reaction. But often they will go back on it and then be like, you know what, it wasn't that bad. I love that I'm gonna do it again. I am like staying strong in that. I never wanna do it again. If I can have an epidural, if I have other babies, then I would have an epidural. But like I said, I I think that I love that I got to experience both. And so I wouldn't.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Danica (39:08.404)
not recommend, like I wouldn't dis-recommend it. Is there a word for that?

I wouldn't say don't do it, but in my experience I was like, this is, you know, I was hoping that it would be like amazing. I would love it so much more. But I was like, you know what? Birth is just incredible. However you have your baby.

Thank you. I just love that you're sharing this perspective because yes, some people do feel that way. Like you said, that it's amazing, but also some people don't. And I don't think we leave enough space that it's a different experience for different people. So I really appreciate you sharing that. Okay, you know, I did it. I'm very proud of myself, but maybe it might not be the right thing for me. And that's like totally okay. think somebody out there needs to hear that.

I hope so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then as we wrap up, what would you say is like your one favorite piece of advice that you would give to someone who's getting ready for their birth?

Danica (40:05.954)
That is a good question. I feel like most of my like number one pieces of advice are things that I've already said. I think like be confident in your body doing what it's supposed to do, but also like know about what may happen. Like know about the potential complications, know about the potential interventions, know your options. And also know just like physiologically how birth works.

No, that's okay. You can say it again.

Danica (40:34.604)
I think that that's really important, even if you plan on getting an epidural. If you have done a couple of things to prepare just in case, like sometimes the epidural doesn't work. My mom had, I think, one or two of those births where it just, you know, it doesn't work or it works on one side. And if that catches you off guard, it would be terrifying. So I would say just be confident and be prepared no matter what your plan is.

know what? did think of one more question. At any point, did you consider getting a doula?

I didn't. If I had done this, if I had had a medicated birth for my first baby, I absolutely think I would have or should have. don't know if I would have, but looking back, I think that I was comfortable enough with birth in general and also my births that I knew how it worked. I knew that I could just have my husband there to be like, okay, can you do this? Can you get me this? And it was gonna be, I felt confident in being the one who is

guiding how things went. So if I didn't feel that confidence, if I didn't know what I was getting myself into, I think a doula is 100 % a great idea. So yeah, I never had one, but I think it would have been great if I didn't know that.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, thank you so much for agreeing to come on to the podcast and share your story. I am so glad that you reached out. And this is just such an important story with so many great points. I'm already like, you know, all the things that I'm thinking about that I to say about it. So thank you so much for being here.

Danica (42:04.618)
Yeah, no thank you. was great. It's fun to relive it a little bit.

Dr. Nicole (42:15.436)
All right, wasn't that a great episode? I so appreciate Danica coming onto the podcast to share her story and those lovely insights about the differences between giving birth with and without an epidural. Now, after every episode, when I have a guest on, I do something called Dr. Nicole's Notes, which are my top takeaways from the conversation. Here are my Dr. Nicole's Notes from my conversation with Danica. Number one is you really need to know

why you want an unmedicated birth. Danica talked about how her doctor asked, you know, why do you want an unmedicated birth? And I think that's a good question. And the reason that's a great question is because having an unmedicated birth is something you should do because you truly want to do it. All right? Danica was intentional about choosing an unmedicated birth. She made sure it was something that she truly wanted rather than something that she felt

pressured to do. You see online, you may see, you know, whatever social media accounts you follow, this, that, and the other, a lot of pressure potentially to do an unmedicated birth, but you really want to do it because it's something that is best for you, whether that's social media pressure or friends pressure or family members pressure, none of that should matter. This is really about a decision that works best for you. So if you're considering going unmedicated,

Just take a little time to reflect on your reasons why, make sure they align with what's best for you. Okay, number two, every birth is different, even with the same person. This is a hill I will die on, saying this over and over and over again, that every birth can be different. Yes, there may be some generalities, but sometimes people get so caught up on specifics that they don't leave room for things to be open, to be different than what sort of general things are.

In Danica's case, her third pregnancy lasted the longest. Typically, your pregnancies get shorter as you go along, but her third pregnancy lasted the longest, okay? That's just the way it happens sometimes. Pregnancy and birth can be unpredictable and you have to be open to flexibility because that is going to make the experience so much less stressful. Okay, number three, and this is gonna seem fairly simple, but it can actually have a big impact, and that is call ahead.

Dr. Nicole (44:40.758)
when you are heading to the hospital. Whether you call your doctor's office and get the on-call person or whether they tell you to call the hospital directly, call ahead when you're headed into the hospital because when the hospital has a heads up that you're coming, it can be really helpful for us to prepare for your arrival. We can allocate a nurse, we can make sure we have rooms, all of that kind of stuff. Danica did this and it helped in her case, skip triage and go straight to a labor.

and delivery room because they were expecting her. So definitely call ahead when you're headed to the hospital and not just in labor, really anytime you're headed up to labor and delivery. Okay, number four, you definitely want to have multiple tools in your labor tool kit. What worked for one birth or for other people may not work for you. Danica learned that counter pressure didn't help her, but using a peanut ball provided some relief for her.

you have to have a variety of comfort measures in mind and stay flexible and trying different techniques for managing pain during labor. And sometimes what works in the beginning may not work later or vice versa. So you really have to have tools in your toolbox. One of the things that I've created for my new childbirth education class, the Birth with Power Pathway is a labor

Pain Management Playbook and it will help you create that labor toolkit so you can manage pain effectively. And then the final note is this Danica mentioned that your body will do what it's supposed to do. And I agree with that, but I need to add a really important caveat that you must listen to. That doesn't always mean a vaginal birth.

Sometimes what your body is doing is telling you that maybe your baby needs help or maybe you need to be induced or that maybe things need to go differently than what you were initially anticipating. So trusting your body is not about trusting that you'll have a vaginal birth. Trusting your body is about trusting your body and listening to whatever signals that it sends.

Dr. Nicole (47:05.26)
which may not necessarily be vaginal birth. In some cases, it may be something different and you definitely want to be open to hear those signals because it can really be important for your baby's health and for your health. All right, that is it for this episode. If you found it helpful, please share it with a friend because every pregnant woman and person deserves to feel informed and empowered just like you.

and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you're loving the show, I'd really appreciate you leaving a quick review. It helps more moms to be fine at birth with power. And most importantly, it helps them step into birth with confidence, just like you. Do hop on my email list at drnicholerinkins.com forward slash email so we can stay in touch and you can start getting the amazing Birth with Power brief. And then please do me one more favor and come on back next week. And remember,

Trust your power. Take charge of your birth.